If by community you mean confessing every single sin in your life to a group of virtual strangers, disclosing your personal financial information, and seeking the approval of the group to change jobs, buy a house, start a family then no,Read more , Christian community can have so many different levels, and not everyone is seeking the same depth in all relationships. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. I dont think so. It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? In our case, it is because those in leadership are held to a higher standard; more is expected of them in terms of their beliefs and practice. Ill meet you. According to a report by National Public Radio, the Catholic Church has paid more than $3 billion in child sexual abuse lawsuit settlements in America alone. I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. They gossip. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and contemporary worship. People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,Read more . As the CG leader, I went first. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. My people hath been lost sheep: He then applied the words Paul used to describe his apostolic ministry in Acts 20:26-32 to his own tenure at Watermark: With a clear conscience, Im going to say this to you, Wagner said. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. You are probably the person ego roles in Lexuss each day when you pull in the church but if Lord has gifted something you are too quick to put that person under the bus. He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. And then they agree to work on the same board? To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. even so, i think its patently obvious that living as the 1% by 1st world standards, even in part, is lavish by any and all standards. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. The building was used for free to us (but not them). Im still waiting for more transparency but doubt we will get if from Wagner as that pride runs deep. In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. I guess we just arent ALL as brave as Todd to resign or be open about confession or a need to step back. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. To demand that a victim produce evidence is a form of revictimization. So, if they can sell their copyrighted material, that is just the same as authors getting paid for their writing or bible study writers selling their studies in bookstores. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. The guy has an ad that comes on YouTube where he goes through how his org is run. How many have you all lead to Christ? The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC If by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster friendships & develop relationships then great. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. In this murky situation, however, the two men dont need honorary titles. Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! Not now. Wow. We don't remove someone's formal status as a member for struggling with sin - whether that sin is pride, materialism, or sexual sin. ingratiating and wheedling in a way In some ways this reminds me of the CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace debacle. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. . If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. As for two doctrinal statements, our church has something similar, one for members and one for leaders. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? The author writes in an article titled David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. The initial corporate fraud is in fact the membership agreement itself. . Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. I know that there are many different types of church governance. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. Todd especially. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. It is kindness that brings people to repentance. Maybe because I have not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as a problem. Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? Best wishes to the church members, though. Really miss your sermons and spirit led preaching. Thats the problem often times one comes on a hot seat and forgets one day would come that same thing that man have to face. Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . indoor plumbing plumbing would be a luxury. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. (although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). He hides behind the church to bully people whether in the church or outside. One question is All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. Humility and pride has been an issue as many of us see, but since you are the first one to throw the stone, if you used this time to share the Gospel with others (I bet some would get saved) as Lord wants us to rely on Him and have the Holy Spirit to guide us. On 05/28/2008 THE STATE OF TEXAS filed a Property - Eminent Domain lawsuit against WATERMARK COMMUNITY CHURCH. I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. It was one of the many things I thought they did well. Hope it works out I know God has you in his hands and it will. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. I really enjoyed the music and people. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. Then check your heart. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. | Grace Community Church. But it still feels like something is off. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. have caused them to *go astray,*. Its where two or more are gathered not where two or more thousands are gathered. 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